Death By Monsters "Glunting For Bigfoot" Transcript

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Matthew: Okay. Hello! This is, uh, this is Death By Monsters, a podcast about monsters, mysteries and the unexplained, of course. My name's Matthew Jude and uh... welcome. Thanks for stopping by. First episode. I'm joined by Paula Deming.

Paula: Hello. I'm Paula.

Matthew: [laughs] I pause for dramatic effect. And, and Nick Murphy.

Nick: Hey, what's up? No stop.

Matthew: That was very quick. How are you by the way, guys? Hello. Nice to see you. This is the first episode of the podcast. How's it going?

Paula: I mean, we just started, so it's hard to say.

Nick: Yeah, cautiously optimistic. We'll put it that way.

Matthew: Yeah. I mean, it's better than how I feel if I'm perfectly honest. So [00:01:00] I thought the best way to start this new venture of our lives would be to talk about my favorite cryptid of all time: old Harry himself, Bigfoot. How do you feel about Bigfoot? Anyone got any thoughts?

Paula: Uh, yeah, I have some thoughts

Matthew: --but I know how Nick feels about Bigfoot, but we'll get into that. How do you feel about Bigfoot?

Paula: I'm pretty certain that Bigfoot is just bears. That people see bears.

They see them in the distance. They see them like walking on hind legs as sometimes happens. And they are convinced that it's Bigfoot, but it's actually just a bear.

Nick: Yep.

Matthew: Nick, how do you feel about Bigfoot? I know it's almost exactly the same answer.

Nick: Pretty much just exactly the same, like every word is right and correct that Paula said. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's just bears. I think people have been trying very hard to find Bigfoot and so they're finding anything they can to like, try to justify their belief in Bigfoot. I feel like if they are really searching that hard, they would have found him by now at this [00:02:00] point, like, you know, I understand that he's elusive, but like someone would have found it by now.

Matthew: Later on I'm going to talk about possibly why you are both wrong, but for now, for now, I'm going to try and not bore everyone with the stuff we all know. So I'll just say that some people, me included, believe in a big bipedal ape that lives in the woods. There are stories and myths about these animals from all over the planet with almost every culture across the globe, having a name for it.

The name I will be using is Bigfoot. Don't want to get into evolutionary genealogy and all that, but I will say that I think it’s possibly some kind of Dryopithecus rather than a Gigantopithecus for a bunch of reasons. None of which we have time--

Paula: I have no idea what any of that means.

Matthew: If you haven't heard of Bigfoot, I don't know what to tell you.

Paula: So every culture has a Cinderella story, right? We learned that in school, every culture has a version of the Cinderella story. Does that mean that Cinderella was [00:03:00] real? Podcast over, I win.

Matthew: If her shoes weren’t the right size, why did they fall off? That's another question you might have.

Because this is one thing that I have a strange relationship with.

Yes. I love the paranormal. The weird, the strange, the wonderful, all that good and crazy stuff. But when it comes to Bigfoot, I don't think we need to add any thing paranormal to it at all. I already think that if it's true, it's amazing and that you don't need to add any weird, high strange stuff along with it.

Cause if Bigfoot’s real that's super cool and he doesn't have to be able to walk through time.

Nick: I do agree with you, Matthew. And this, I kind of agree with, with most like monsters, you know, like the chupacabra or Jersey Devil or whatever, like I don't get why it has to be like paranormal? Like that, that to me, like is always kind of like a big kicker for me.

It's like, I can totally understand like, and like somewhat wrap [00:04:00] my head around, like, Hey, there's just this animal we don't know about. And I'm like, okay, I can just, I get that. But it's like, nah, like Bigfoot's actually a genie, you know? And um, you know, all this stuff, it's like, I don't, that's like, why, why, why can't it just be some animal we didn't, we don't know anything about.

Now, Bigfoot isn't real. Because an animal that fricking big someone would have seen at this point, if you're like, “Hey man, there's this mythical beetle we don't know about because it's the size of a thumbtack” I'd be like, yeah, you're probably right. We don't know about that beetle.

Paula: Or deep sea creature that we haven't discovered yet because it's way 10,000 leagues under the sea, if you will, in the dark.

But we're talking about like, the woods.

Nick: People have been there. Matthew, I have been to the woods.

Paula: How have you not--

Matthew: The taiga forest that goes across the entire of the Northern hemisphere isn't just the woods. It's like the thickest--you can't--Oh my gosh. It's-- you don't just--Big foot high, Bigfoot Country? You don't just go for a jaunt.

You don't go for a stroll. It's like, [00:05:00] no-man's land. It's like the--Oh my good grief.

Paula: I broke Matthew.

Nick: A lot of these sightings have been in like, Virginia. We're not talking about, like deep in the middle of the Congo. Like--

Paula: I don't know that, that feels very well populated, but--

Matthew: so I just want to uh, thank the work of Bob Gimlin, who has a YouTube channel. And it's an absolutely amazing Bigfoot YouTube channel, which I very much enjoyed. And he has a wry, sarcastic demeanor, which I appreciate. His work is also profoundly convincing. So I truly encourage you to subscribe to Bob Gimlin. If you find this kind of weird stuff interesting at all. But firstly, I'm going to tell you the story of the Minnesota Iceman.

I'll just say this about Minnesota, a place that I know, frankly, just about nothing at all about other than something to do with gophers for some reason. I don't know. I briefly Googled it. But I do know that it's a very big ass place and that, unless you live in the Twin [00:06:00] Cities of Minneapolis and St.

Paul--I mean, as well, I had to Google that. So if that sounded natural, It was just, I Googled it--unless you live there, there's an awful lot of nothing in Minnesota. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I like to be nowhere near other people. I once got the train through the fine state of Minnesota and, um, it has beautiful, wonderful, fine green pastures.

It is also an incredibly good place If you need to hide a dead body.

Paula: Oh dear.

Matthew: I feel like you could probably do anything there.

Paula: Definitely eat a lot of hot dish there.

Matthew: I don’t know what that is, but it sounds comforting.

Paula: It's a casserole.

Matthew: Mm, that's less fun. Also, their state song is “Hail Minnesota”, which out of context sounds a little bit creepy.

In the 1960s, a fella by the name of Frank Hansen started touring around the American Northeast with a body of a Bigfoot that he had frozen in a meat freezer. Now, admittedly, [00:07:00] that might seem a little bit odd. I'll add the word allegedly in now, but I will a hundred percent carry on to talk about this as though it's absolute fact. The reason this was weird was because up until having a Bigfoot body in a meat freezer, he mainly just toured antique tractors.

Paula: It's important to diversify.

Matthew: It’s good to diversify your portfolio. I appreciate that. This is a side step from, “Hey, do you want to see my tractors” to “Hey. Do you want to see a dead body?”

Nick: Pretty much. You put it on your resume under special skills: freezing Bigfoot.

Matthew: If you are offering people to see a dead body--

Paula: What year was this?

Matthew: ’65.

Paula: How did he keep it cold consistently? That's a lot of like, ice he had to have like delivered to him all the time. Right? Am I wrong? They didn't have like… electrical refrigeration then. Right?

Nick: Well, was it during winter? Cause he could just like carry it around outside.

Matthew: You could absolutely buy a freezer in the 1960s.

Paula: Okay. Yep.

Nick: Geez, 1860s--

Paula: That makes a big [00:08:00] difference. I was like--

Matthew: Three men died getting this ice!

Paula: Okay, this makes a lot more sense. Continue. 1960s. Got it.

Matthew: Along with these antiquated tractors in 1965, he also sold tickets for a quarter a piece to go and see Bigfoot. Now the first question I'm sure you're asking is: where did he get a frozen Bigfoot from?

Nick: My first question was like, why only a quarter? Like I understand it was the sixties, but like, come on, give him, give me a five spot. That's ridiculous. It’s Bigfoot.

Matthew: If you're going to hustle that hard for a quarter a piece, that’s a lot of money in the 1960s

Nick: It should have been a five spot or a, just an exorbitant amount of cocaine.

Matthew: You talk about, this is something that hasn't come up in this podcast before, but you talk about cocaine so much that I think you should just go and get some cocaine.

Nick: Cocaine fascinates me because I'm really loud and energetic. And cocaine makes you really loud, energetic. So like in terms of drugs- I've never done any [00:09:00] drugs-so like, in terms of drugs that I'm curious to try cocaine's up there. Cause I'm just curious of what I would be like on cocaine?

Matthew: Almost intolerable. I would probably imagine. I would suggest ketamine for you if I'm perfectly honest or some other kind of horse tranquilizer, that'd be fun.

Paula: I mean did he just take a dead human body and like glue a bunch of hair to it, though?

Matthew: We're going to get so deep into this. It's going to be,it's going to be a whole thing.

Firstly. Frank was a pretty upstanding member of society. He was a captain in the U S Air Force. One of the, one of the Oh, one of the--what a, what an air force--and by all accounts, just a normal guy. And while there are certainly a few origin stories for the Iceman, including at one time Hansen claiming that the body had been discovered floating in a block of ice off the Siberian coast by a Russian seal hunting vessel, or that the Japanese had a whaling ship and they'd found it, or that had been found in a deep freeze facility in Hong [00:10:00] Kong.

And one story that he was just holding onto the body for Jimmy Stewart. That's right THE Jimmy Stewart, who, by the way, fucking loves this weird stuff. And once got in almost a lot of trouble trying to smuggle Yeti bones out of the Himalayas. It's a whole thing. It's the Buddhist artifact called the pan Bach hand.

Anyway, look that up. It's very interesting.

Paula: Wait, so this guy keeps changing his story about where he got the body from?

Matthew: Oh yeah, big time.

Paula:That's a red flag number one for me.

Matthew: Frank would also later say that he told a few little white lies about the origin as he was truly worried, that he had killed some form of human.

Remember. And I'm going to, I'm saying this as though you will know what I'm talking about, remember the Patterson Gimlin footage was still seven years away and the Patterson Gimlin footage is the most famous Bigfoot footage. That one of just the dude--

Nick: --the one where he's like mid-stride and he's like, heyyyy--

[00:11:00] Matthew: It is the one where he looks back and kind of goes “sup”.

Nick: What's up, my name’s Larry--

Paula: --shot by the same people who shot the moon landing. Actually.

Nick: It's true. That one's fake. I'll tell, I’ll say that--

Matthew: Don’t get me started! I think we went, but when?

So the Patterson Gimlin footage really brought Bigfoot to the force. So this was before all that, and also turns out that that footage on I M D B has only got a 7.5 and it's a film starring the real Bigfoot. I mean, what do you want from a film to rate it a 10?

Paula: I don’t know, a narrative.

Matthew: The narrative is, I'll tell you the narrative start to finish: Huh?? That's a Bigfoot!

Nick: That's got, that's got a climax--

Paula: Lacks closure.

Matthew: I didn't check, but I wonder what the JFK getting his face blasted in got on IMDB--well, technically I think it’s his face blasted out.--

Paula: Let's talk about Bigfoot. That’s upsetting.

Nick: This is America.

Matthew: The official account of how Frank Hansen shot himself a Bigfoot [00:12:00] was published in Saga Magazine. And follows the narrative that he had a couple buddies had just gone hunting at White Face Reservoir in Northern Minnesota, which is important as I will mention later, he said--now, this is a very long quote and quite possibly one of the only quotes of the whole episode.

So for it, I'm going to attempt an accent.

Paula: I'm ready for it.

Matthew: Just to spice it up a little bit, because if I say “I shot a Bigfoot”, it seems like it was a clean kill.

[background music starts]

“In the middle of a small clearing were three hairy creatures that at first looked like bears. Two of these creatures were on their knees tearing at the inside of freshly killed deer. The deer’s innards were scattered around the clearing. The things were scooping blood from the stomach cavity into the palm of their hands---like which is completely bad-ass--raising their cupped hands of fresh blood to their mouths

[00:13:00] they swallow the liquid. The third creature was about 10 yards away on the edge of the clearing crouched on his haunches. It was obvious he was a male in similar stature as a man. Absolute horror gripped my every muscle as the, as I stared at the frightening tableau before me. I felt as if my body had turned to stone. Without warning, the male lept straight into the air from his crouched position, his arms jerked upwards, high above his head.

And he let out a weird screeching sound. Screeching and screaming he charged towards me. I can't remember aiming my rifle, nor do I recall pulling the trigger, but a bullet must have slammed into the beast body as blood spurted from his face. The huge creature staggered seemingly stunned by this unexpected happening.”

--No shit!

Nick: Fair. That's a dumb creature. That’s what that is.

Matthew: I do not recall ejecting the [00:14:00] spent shell, nor do I recall firing my rifle again. In many sweat drenched, nightmares, however, I have vividly envisioned the blood covered face lying on the ground next to the mutilated deer. I have absolutely no recollection of ever seeing the other two creatures again, they seem to have vanished into thin air. Blind with fear I started to run. I dashed over the swampy terrain, not knowing or caring in which direction I ran. My only thought was to get away from those horrible things. I stumbled. I fell, but I picked myself up again and fell once more. I thought they were right behind me.

Finally, I fell onto the frozen marshland. Completely exhausted, not caring if the creatures caught me. I lay there waiting for the attack. I’ve no recollection of time and my mind blanked out.


Phew. Scene.

Nick: It sounds like he has no recollection of like, anything.

Matthew: What happened was he went, [00:15:00] Oh I’ve shot something, run for your life! And he's blanked it out because of the sheer, sheer--

Nick: --arousal of the kill--

Matthew: --the sheer thrill that you can only gain from killing something. That's got consciousness above that of a mere animal.

Paula: I was gonna say there was something almost Lovecraftian about that description. And I want to say that though that was not a Minnesota accent,

um, I do find it to have been effective in giving in a sense of gravitas.

Nick: Otherwise he'd be like, “Oh yeah, there’s a, there's a big old, Bigfoot out there. And I took a gun and I shot him right in the frickin face there eh?” Paula, you be the Minnesota Bigfoot getting shot. And then I'll be the Minnesota guy.

“Oh, Hey, there’s a big foot. Oh, oh don't you come running at me there, eh

Paula: Oh, hi. Oh, don't mind me.

Nick: I think you're running and I get a bit scared, but I keep blacking out during

this whole situation, making this story really, really inconsistent, but I'm going to shoot you right there. I don't remember doing it, but boom bang.

Paula: Oh no!

Matthew: “You want to [00:16:00] watch where you're aiming that thing you might go--Oh my God!”

Paula: Could these creatures be like… way backwoods people who are kind of like inbred and--

Matthew: Hills Have Eyes style.

Paula: Yeah.

Nick: Like one of those civilizations in Papa New Guinea that like, have never met any other civilization. So when they see a helicopter, they start firing at it.

Matthew: The amount of things I've watched and read where every now and again someone said, “Oh, it could have just been a hairy man, who knows?”

Nick: I think it's an LA hipster. Who just thinks he's outdoorsy.

Matthew: Mm, if you can be mistaken for a Bigfoot--

Paula: --some hygiene issues--

Nick: Nothing against the Grecian people, but I saw some exceptionally hairy man in Greece.


Nick: Is that, should we cut that out?

Matthew: Perhaps. After locating his friends, they left the forest and Frank didn't mention it to anyone on account of him not wanting to sound crazy.

He also didn't want to have to go through a psych evaluation, which is probably the right move on his part because in the 1960s in the military, not [00:17:00] only because stuff like PTSD wasn't really a thing, he'd also turned to liquor and pain medication--which let me tell you something about the warm and comforting arms of liquor and pain medication, because they are just absolutely great.

And by that, I mean, fucking dangerously addictive, awful, but also undeniably fun. Yeah. So as with many people who turned to the devil's cocktail, paranoia and mental health problems set in, so with the first snow, he decided to set out and retrieve the body, not only to make sure he'd actually seen what he had seen, shot what he had shot, but also to make sure that no one else stumbled upon the monster and started to ask any questions.

Now, this is the one part where I have trouble understanding the timeline of the story as he waited til the first snow and went hunting in like the Summer. And while I don't know much about hunting, I have to assume that anything dead on the ground will be scavenged [00:18:00] pretty much straight away.

Paula: I would think

Matthew: So obviously I don't understand the timeline here. But all will become clear later on. And I wanted to do that in an accent again, because “clear” is one of the words I can do. So anyway, ignoring that issue like a real scientist, I'll carry on. But I'll address this in a later segment that I'm going to call: Ah Ha!

Nick: So this guy, he was like, I want to go find this monster so no one accidentally stumbles upon this monster, but then I'm going to freeze it and like, charge people to see it?

Matthew: The reason he didn't want to anyone to know that he killed something was because he was still a military man. You know, he was still an upstanding member of society. He wasn't the famed antiquated tractor peddler that we came to know and love later on in life.

Paula: Oh my gosh. How long did he keep this body frozen? Before he started showing it around to people like--

Nick: --good question, Paula--

Paula: --this guy… something's wrong with him!

Matthew: As the snow began to fall in Northern Minnesota, he went in [00:19:00] search of the monster.

He found the corpse, wrapped it in a tarp, took it home and froze it in a meat freezer in his basement, which I have to say, look, don't put any bodies of any age or any ape-like creatures in your freezer, in your basement or anyone's basement. He's got his buddies round for the big game is on. Right. That's what you people do, right?

That the Super Bowl, whatever is on, he's supporting his local… the Minnesota Gophers I want to say--

Nick: The Vikings

Matthew: I don't know who they are. Same thing. They're both great builders. He says, “Hey, go get me some beer from the fridge”. And the guy just walks down and he's a bit drunk and walks down the stairs into the basement, opens the fridge and clutching a six pack of Coors Banquet beer--the greatest of all the terrible beers--it's a Minnesota Iceman.

So from 65 to 67, along with his antiquated tractors, he decides that now he's, that he's left the army. He [00:20:00] decides for a quarter a go, you can come and see a dead body.

Nick: Ridiculous.

Matthew: This is all going great until a science guy got involved

Paula: Damn science guys.

Matthew: Bastards! By that, I mean, a psychology student named Terry Cullen. Now Cullen really believed in the specimen, but that made him write just a shit ton of letters to the scientific community, who did not respond. So then he reached out to Ivan Sandestin, a noted cryptozoologist who had written extensively on the subject of The Abominable Snowman: Legends Come to Life and Bernard Villain who wrote On the Track of Unknown Animals, which is a classic book that I would actually highly recommend.

Both Benard and Ivan were the type of people that if you asked them to come see a dead body, you better believe they're going to come and see.

Nick: Oh, they'll travel.

Matthew: If someone asks you to come see a dead body.

Paula: No, absolutely not. I would like to be able to close my eyes to go to sleep and not see that flashing through my mind.

Nick: It depends on where this dead body is. Like, they're like, “Hey. Come down to [00:21:00] my basement dungeon and see a dead body”. I'd be like, nah, I'm going to become that dead body. But if like I'm behind a Ralph's and someone's like, “Hey, you want to see a dead body? It's right over here.” I'll be like, yeah, I will.

Paula: No, I'm not going behind a Ralph's.

Matthew: ”You mean, if I go behind that Dick's barbecue there's a dead body? I'm not falling for it again!”

Train tracks is the only place I want to see a dead body.

They examined the body. And over the course of a few days, the findings were even published in the bulletin of the Royal Institute of Natural Science of Belgium. But Benard for damn sure didn't believe the story of how the body came to Frank Hansen's possession. Ivan went on to describe the body in a magazine called Argassi. Essentially his description was seemingly his attempt to not prove what it was, but to say for sure what it wasn't: a human. So this all gets real fucky when Hansen took the body to Canada. If you've got a dead body, I will say this now: crossing state lines is one thing, but don’t--

Nick: “Oh, Hey, what'd you got there in the truck there.”

“Oh, she's a Yeti.”


[00:22:00] Matthew: ”That's the dead body of a mountain man!”

He took the body to Canada to hide it as he was getting all kinds of nervous and paranoid about having the body. With the academic world calling him a liar, the government calling him a possible murderer, and the church--now Hansen was a man of faith--they weren't particularly happy about him parading around the missing link.

He came back to the U S with a replica. So a few notes here for the sake of brevity. Frank did talk to John Chambers, the guy behind the Planet of the Apes about getting a replica. But this was way, way after the years that he had been touring the body... he said that he would release the body if he could be made immune to any legal problems around having the body, which is something that the government were unwilling to agree to.

Both Ivan Sanderson and Bernard Willem said that the body that they examined was not the body that came back from Canada. [00:23:00]


Did I hear a cat?

Paula: Yes. I'm so sorry.

Nick: That sounds like, was that Emily? The tortoise?

Matthew: Emily the Tortoise, she's so, she's so close to being out of hibernation.

Nick: Is that right?

Paula: [off mic] Luna, stop.

Matthew: There's always the risk that she might just be a shell. She's in the garage and I've not smelled anything weird. So I'm pretty sure she's alive.

Paula: The account of how this guy got this body of an alleged Sasquatch is sounding very familiar to me. Like it's very similar to an account I have heard from somewhere else.

Matthew: Did someone try and sell you a dead body?

Paula: [laughs] No, like that documentary!

Matthew: Yeah. Big time.

Paula: Are we going to talk about that? Because it’s like--woah!

Matthew: The one thing that I truly don't believe at all about this whole story is that Frank Hansen went into the woods and shot himself a Bigfoot. What I think is a vastly more likely possibility in my mind and in the mind of Bob Gimlin, who, again, I need to thank for the [00:24:00] bulk of this story, is that he was an air force officer, captain in the air force. I think maybe he was making like a backhanded deal. Shady deal. Someone says, Hey, I've got a dead Yeti do you want it? And he said, yeah, big time. That's what I'm saying. But when I say it outloud--

Nick: --doesn’t that make it more likely at all? Because that other person still had to find the Yetis somewhere

Matthew: I think, is a covert operation. And I also think that the government took the body away.

Paula: I think this is like some X-Files.

Nick: He does love X-Files.

Paula: You don't think that he was just like in the woods and stumbled upon a dead body. Took it home with him and thought, “wow, wouldn't this be a better story if I like, was attacked by these monsters and then I shot them and then I came back for the body.”

Matthew: Well, I've seen the, the, the pictures of the original body before it was switched. I'm doing air quotes, you can't see--switched by the government. It looks exactly like the images [00:25:00] that a guy called Todd Standing has taken. They're called asylvian videos. Have either of you heard of Les Stroud? The uh Survivor Man?

Nick: Yeah.

Paula: Yeah.

Matthew: Wow. Love him so much. One thing I love more than anything is the fact that I feel like I could survive on a desert island because I've watched all of his episodes of Survivor. Yeah. I feel like I have the capacity to at least outlast everyone else, which really is what it’s all about, because then you've won.

Paula: Yes, then you’ve won. Exactly.

Nick: Exactly. A hundred percent.

Matthew: There’s so many videos right? There’s loads of videos in Canada that he has taken these pictures of Bigfoot. And there's a few videos and... I…

There's a lot of stuff I don't believe in. Right. But I do believe in Bigfoot. I really do. And why would Les Stroud.. he says, yeah, he saw, he went and saw with Todd Standing. He went up there. He said he saw Bigfoot. He says he's seen it. Why would he lie? He’s Survivor Man. He doesn't need to lie.

Nick: He films everything. This is the one thing he conveniently didn't film.

Matthew: Have you ever?-- [00:26:00] next time? You know, if you ever get mugged or like you see a car crash, how quickly you would need to get your phone out?

It's an elusive mountain man who thrives in the woods and uses his knowledge to seek privacy. God I'm so jealous. It’d be fucking ace.

So from one dead monkey to another one, this next case is a case of Justin Schmear. Who in 2010 while hunting with a friend shot and killed a Bigfoot in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California.

Okay. You've all watched this documentary video cause I sent you a link.

Paula: There's some messed up stuff in this.